BPD is caused by poor parenting

I have to agree and disagree!
I am married to a BPDw that mentally abuses her 12 year old daughter, but then will give in to her daughter when her daughter wants something. The daughter has acquired Stockholm Syndrom and will side in with her mom, so she can keep her mom from screaming at her or ignoring her. Here is an example: I had taken my wife to the casino (her favorite place) one weekend because she gave me the impression of saving the marriage. I thought she would start to gamble responsibly being she wanted to save the marriage. Wrong! After loosing her money she looked at me and asked for a twenty. Well, I gave her twenties up to  $100.00. I then said we have to get back because her daughter had to eat. I took them out to dinner that I again spent another $60.00, and while there she had the nerve to ask me to pay her cable bill. I didn't say anything because I didn't want to trigger an episode in public. She then said hold off because she would try to work something out. Now mind you, my wife makes very good money and makes  considerably more money than I. You can tell she lives separate from me because I told her to leave after she helped me into bankruptcy. Back to the action. Well, I left that weekend without giving her money for her cable bill. She didn't answer her phone for a week. When she did answer she asked me how does it feel to not have a wife because she didn't have a husband to give her money when she asked. She screamed at me saying that she knows that she lost her money at the casino, but should have a husband to fall back on to bail her out. She overexagerated about how her and her daughter had no food, no gas money to get work, and no money for her dogs food. After the screaming I heard her daughter say if she had the money she would give it to her mom; not like your husband. Her daughter was sucking up to her mom so that would lower the probability of her mom screaming at her.
This is only the tip of the iceberg of what her daughter would say or do to get her mom to buy the things she wanted, or for her mom not to scream at her. This was a constant happening in  the house when we lived together. She taught her daughter to disrespect me in my own house because if I tried to teach her daughter right from wrong, but my wife would scold me in front her daughter. Nothing like teaching your child to scream and scold to get your way.
I have called the CPS on them, but she was able to convince the authorities she was such  an excellent mother,  and that I was an abuser. I think I over stepped my bounds, but I was concerned about the child. We are now getting a divorce, and I know I can't do anything about the abuse my wife gives her daughter.
I agree with giving to much and my child can do no wrong is a terrible way to bring up a child, but my BPDw does both to her daughter. She will scream at her daughter to  get the f*** away and don't bother me because her daughter constantly seeks her mother's attention, or she would buy her daughter anything she wants eventually. I believe that both lack of attention and giving too much and child can do no wrong can cause serious pesonality disorders in the child, but also either one or the other alone can cause the same disorders. A parents influence is paramount to how a child will turn out in adult life.

Laura, the research is scant when it comes to Borderline Personality Disorder, and much of the causes and dynamics are left to speculation.  Even the experts readily admit this.  It would be ideal if they could observe a BPD individual from birth to adulthood in order to gauge what sort of influences had an impact on their development.  Unfortunately, that hasn't happened and therapists come late to the game, well after their patients have become dysfunctional, with no basis for what caused the problem other than the recollections of the patient (who isn't exactly the ideal source of clarity and objectivity, not when they're caught up in the midst of dysfunction).  Plus, I doubt the BPD patient would be able to recall accurately how they were being parented between the ages of 1-4.  That is the time in which our personality, our ability to learn consequences to behavior, emotional regulation, begins to gel.  It is during these early years that we learn to evolve beyond the baby psyche which is all about ME ME ME (consequence free, black/white feelings) to more evolved modes of being.  It is during these early years that a child is most receptive to learning these things (personal responsability, both emotional and social) from our parents.  If it isn't taught then, it is too late.  Any efforts made after that simply won't be integrated into the child's psyche.  These things needed to be instilled while the personality was actually developing (the toddler years).  Thats when we are most  receptive to being imprinted with these things.  We're no longer the soft, maleable, sponges we once were after a certain age.  We continue to learn of course, but it won't be imprinted deep into our psyches.  A parent may fail to instill these qualities in a child, either by spoiling or negligence, then later on when the kid is older, when the maladaptive behavior is no longer cute, or it becomes embarrassingly obvious, the parent tries to correct chronic dysfunctional behavior…but it is too late.  If a child gets the consistant message that they can do no wrong between the ages of 1-4, it laid the tracks to their developing personality.  Trying to crack down after this will not make an impact.  Because the child's psychology has already been set.  An older child will only resent you now for trying to discipline them.  Or they will feel victimized. They were programmed to believe they can do no wrong.  They will resent the hell out of anything that goes against this.  Nor is it their fault.  Essentially, they were programmed, imprinted, to believe they are incapable of wrongdoing, there was no need to regulate their emotions/tantrums, no need to evolve beyond the simple black/white thinking.  Essentially, they were programmed to remain in the same psychological state as a baby.  Expecting to be the center of attention, becoming fearful or resentful when they're not.  Perhaps thats where fear of abandonment comes in, but frankly, this is where I think the experts have it wrong.  Laura, the self-harm and abandonment issues speak more to bi-polar disorder.  Less so, if at all does this apply to borderline disorder, although a bpd may threaten suicide as a manipulation, pity me, attention tactic.  Often to deflect blame or responsability away from  their abusive, dysfunctional actions.   Rarely does it occur with borderline, unless it is used as an empty threat to manipulate.  Self-harm is a serious problem with bi-polar disorder and unfortunatly even many therapists still confuse the two.  They share some similiar symptoms, but the pathology and the causes are vastly different.  Bi-polar disorder individuals almost always have a history of being abused.  That and the constant denigration they've suffered cause them to self-harm.  One could say they were subjected to such abuse, and abuse that was covert, that they could not speak of, that it impelled them to self-harm.  Abuse seriously impacts many personality disorders, especially common in bi-polar.  But it is not a contributing factor in borderline disorder. 
I bring this up because 1. A BPD person could be abused, like anyone else.  However, abuse does not cause BPD.  Abuse that occurs AFTER the ages of 3 or 4 will NOT have an impact on whether or not someone develops BPD.  BPD develops during the toddler years.  If you don't have BPD by age 4 or possibly even as late as 5, you won't ever have it.  You don't develop it later in life.  It is formed during the toddler years, while one's personality and basic sense of the world is being formed. It is formed because the primary caregivers provide an environment that encourages a toddler to maintain the baby personality, never evolving past it.  A baby is a bundle of raw, uncontrolled emotion, only able to maintain one major emotion at a time, and felt to the very core of their being.  Black/white thinking.  All they care about are their own immediate wants and feelings.  Raw emotion. That is their only means of communication.  Being the center of attention is an imperative for a baby, without it, it could die.  Adults with BPD often feel a similiar intolerance when it comes to being the center of attention.  I suppose this could speak to fear of abandonment.  Although, frankly, that is more of an aspect of bi-polar disorder.  Jealousy is a major symptom of BPD, along with emotional dysregulation, and lack of personal accountablility.  I don't mean occasional failure to take accountability for their actions..it is a repeated pattern never veered from.  They don't accept accountability for their abusive or emotional outbursts.  Ever. Instead they blame, throw a tantrum, distract, or project.  It's everyone else's fault.  Never theirs.  Laura, does this sound like your father…or you? From what you've written, it sounds as if you are describing something other than BPD.  If you can take responsability for your mistakes, if you aren't throwing tantrums, if you aren't needy to the point of requiring constant validation/attention, if you aren't spiteful and resentful when you aren't the center of that attention….you're most likely not BPD.  Those are the dominating features of BPD.  Self-harm, lack of abandonment are the key symptoms of bi-polar disorder.  Bi-polar individuals were abused.  But they are not likely to abuse anyone but themselves.  In fact, that is the defining feature.  They harm themselves.  A borderline personality harms everyone else.  And feels completely justfied in doing so.  It is common for people to mix the two disorders up.  A lot of the older documentation on BPD links it to bi-polor disorder, and it irks me to see the criteria for these disorders still meshed together.  The lack of research into BPD has resulted in blanket statements where they fill in the gaps with "criteria" from related personality disorders.  But they are in actuality very different.  The latest research reflects that, but its a slow process to amend previous thinking.  There really wasn't much research into BPD to begin with.  Speculation and lumping it in amongst other disorders is comon and misleading. 

I liken it to this analogy.  You know how there are some people who love their pet to peices and can't bear to discipline their dog?  And inevitably they turn out to be behavioral nightmares, overreatcting and barking like crazy to the slightest stimuli?  Whereas a dog raised with both love AND discipline would take it in stride?  Parenting is the same.  It's all in the training.  If a parent consistantly provides consequences to a child's behaviors, the child learns personal responsability and emotional regulation.  They learn there are better ways to express their needs and wants.  But if a parent is inconsistant or fails to make the the child sit with consequences, they stay at the same immature level.  Parenting is everything.  Parents provide the recipe, then cook it.  Please note there is a world of difference between disciplining a child  and yelling at them.  Discipline is merely providing a proper consequence.  Getting angry at a child for their behavior does NOTHING to teach them about consequences or personal responsability.  All it does is teach them additional maladaptive behaviors to cope with a parents anger (such as lying, withdrawing, cowering, or even fighting back).  Whatever behavior one hoped to change in their kid by yelling at them will be completely lost.  The only thing a child learns from an angry parent is how to avoid/cope with a parent's rage.  Yelling at your kid is NOT discipline.  It does nothing to teach them consequences. 

You disagree that BPD is caused by the environment in which one was raised?
On what basis do you chalk up the cause to a mere "lack of self-acknowledgment?"  Please flesh out your theory with a detail or two to  illustrate how this could be so.  
Family dysfunction comes from the top down.  From parents to child.  Not the other way around.

What you are describing sounds much more like narcissism. Your description of the parenting for a BPD is extremely unusual. Almost all BPDs come from very difficult childhoods, typically consisting of abuse or abandonment. If your descriptions of parenting are accurate, I would speculate that the diagnosis of BPD is incorrect.

BPD is currently one of the most misunderstood complex mental illnesses. Recent research is beginning to show it is a biological illness just like Schizophrenia, Bipolar, Autism, etc. Just like with those illnesses, environmental factors do play a role in the illness but do not create the illness itself. Stress can be a big contributor on how the patient is doing at any given time.
Please remember that much of the mainstream information out there is outdated. I understand that the old belief that BPD is caused by poor parenting is based off of data that was collected via self reports of the BPD themselves during research done while they were being hospitalized. So not only was the data collected while the patients were highly stressed (hence the hospitalization) but was also self reported. Anyone that knows a true BPD knows that their self reporting ability even on a good day (no stress) can be a real challenge. Due to their emotional dysregulation, perceptual issues, impulsivity, etc, their beliefs and memories tend to be skewed – sometimes significantly.
If a child is seriously spoiled, yes you could end up with a problematic, self-centered, childish adult. That is very different from a BPD person. Granted their behaviors may APPEAR quite similar at times but the reasons behind the behaviors are very different. A BPD person is far more complex and displays many more problematic behaviors than an adult who has been spoiled all their life – without question.
Plus, don’t forget that it wasn’t very long ago that people believed things like Autism and Schizophrenia where caused by poor parenting too. Doesn’t it now sound ridiculous to know that Autism was once believed to be caused by the mothers not looking into their child’s eyes enough?!?! Well BPD is probably at least 20 years behind those mental illnesses in terms of research. They are just now really beginning to adequately research BPD and unravel the complexities of the illness.
BPD is also easily one of the most stigmafied mental illnesses too. People, even the professionals, tend to believe BPDs are simply selfish, mean, manipuliative, hard to manage people. This may be true at some level but the reality is that BPDs act the way they do because they essentially have a flawed emotional response system that creates havoc in the way they interpret and relate to the world around them.
From what I have learned about BPD, I fully believe BPD is far more genetic than was previously thought. The fact that it is not uncommon for an adopted BPD person to come from a family with BPD or other mental health illnesses (but not raised by them) only supports this theory.

I totally agree with Mr. Dobbs. I have three girls very close in age and only the middle one has BPD. The other two are typical, healthy, teenagers. They were all obviously raised in the exact same environment. It would be impossible to do otherwise.

(BTW, Mr. Dobbs I love your book When Hope is Not Enough. I gives great insight about how a BPD feels.)

I completly and utterly disagree with this. BPD is not a parents fault, most research shows that BPD is the result of abuse. The feelings associated with it are a parent can do or un-do. trust me , my parents tried. Feelings of vulnerability, powerlessnesss, idealization and devaluation and chronic feelings of emptiness….those are what symptoms of BPD. If someone thinks they have Borderline Personality Disorder, it is best that a trained medical physician look at them, but it doesnt sound like you have done your research on what BPD is caused by or what the symptoms are…

I do not agree that BPD is spoiled! I have BPD and have been abandoned, abused and neglected.I do not think you are well aware of this disorder.

One can clearly see that autism, schizophrenia, and less so perhaps bipolar are genetic or chemical at root and not caused by poor parenting. It’s obvious these disorders affect their sufferers on ALL levels of functioning. These disorders don’t emerge at opportune times, times that are advantegeou to the disordered; it’s an energy and awareness and functioning that’s always present and a part of that person (most so with the genetic autism and schizophrenia). How can we discern genetic in-born causes versus conditioning as a cause when it comes to BPD? Well, BPDs are smart about when and who they rage at, when and who they behave abusively towards.They pick and choose when to “lose it.” Melt downs are often behind closed doors affairs. Their dysfunctional, abusive behaviors are always done at times and with people with whom they can get away with it. Usually family. Or a significant other. It is usually only one or two persons that get the full display of selfish immaturity routinely targeted at them. To the rest of the world they project sweetness and light. They are smart enough to know when they can get away with it. This proves they have control of their own emotions. If they want to. Its just that they utilize their emotions manipulatively, to avoid real consequences. People with BPD are excellent actors. They are more than capable of behaving like angels for outsiders or to serve some other manipulative purpose. It’s not genetic if you can choose to turn the dysfunction off and on at will. The Jeykl and Hyde personality is perfectly capable of behaving like a “healthy” non-personality disordered person when the situation requires it. When there’s an audience, the police show up, your parents show up, or some other figure that might hold them accountable shows up. They like people to see them in a good light, and they will work to ensure that. Think about it. The abusive outbursts aren’t as random as you think. It’s always in private, always directed at the same person/s. They are smart enough to know behaving like a raging or hysterical maniac is not in their best interests in public. This side is shown to a chosen few. They save it for behind closed doors, at home. They save it for where they can get away with it. If there’s a child, one will get targeted for the BPD ‘s wrath. BPD mothers are notorious for going after one of their children (and only one). Please don’t tell me you buy the excuse that the mother abuses her child because she fears it may abandon her. Abusers choose who to abuse and when to maximize their ability to conceal it and still maintain a good public image. This proves they are in control of their emotions. They are aware. They just “let it all out” when no ones looking, when it’s only family. Family can’t leave them. Family has no choice but to put up with it. Family will be ashamed, baffled, and help cover up the crazy dysfunction that goes on behind closed doors. Think about when the meltdowns occur. Who are they directed at? Are the rages and suicide threats in public, random, or in secret? What really sparked them in the first place? Is it a secret to all but the inner circle? This proves it’s just a matter of conditioning.Abusers behave the same way and it is a choice. They too may want to blame their genes, claim they themselves were abused growing up. But its all to evade personal responsability. And I think I have more than proved it is a choice. They were conditioned to feel entitled to their rage, their extreme emotions. But they aren’t stupid, or mentally impaired, nor are they incapable of controlling their volatile moods. They know its wrong to rage like a maniac. So they don’t do it in public. They are quite gifted at donning the sweetness and light act. They know this sort of behavior is unsavory, outrageous. Other people would shun them or report them if they did this in public. The problem is they just don’t care. Not enough to stop. Just enough to get away with it–which is why they exert the effort to act “nice” when there’s an audience. Which is why some people never get to witness their dysfunctional nature, and wouldn’t believe you if you told them. Disorders that are caused by genetic, chemical dysfunction don’t rear their ugly head only when it best serves the disordered. It doesn’t cause someone to exhibit symptoms or break with reality ONLY in front of certain specific people. Or only when they can get away with it… Dysfunction caused by genes doesn’t just magically rear its head when the BPD is only with family members or loved ones behind closed doors. If it were genetic they’d be behaving outrageously in front of everyone, any time of day, uncontrollably. It wouldn’t be just during times they can get away with it. Family, loved ones, can be safely raged at. Therefore, they are. Family can be manipulated. Also, I’ve never heard of a genetically caused disorder that prevents people from seeing reality but ONLY during those times they are asked to be accountable for their wrongdoings. Just as a schizophrenic is persistantly coming from a distorted reallity, you can see this is a serious genetic disease, they live in this distorted state most of the time. They don’t escape into la la land only during those times they wish to “forget” or distort some manipulative or abusive action on their part. How convenient that would be! BPDs do that. Autistics don’t vacation into a distorted reality/relational land to escape accountability. They live there in distorted thinking, relating land. They don’t go there just to escape responsability. Isn’t it telling how a BPD person only distorts reality when it comes to something they’ve done something heinous, cruel, childish? Suddenly they “forget” what they did, they remember it diffently, or invent an entirely new scenario in which they did nothing wrong. Notice they don’t distort reality or otherwise go seemingly “crazy” at any other time. Only when it serves their ego or their alibi. It’s only when they’re confronted about their dysfunctional actions. They deny, project, blame. And I don’t think it’s because they are mentally “crazy” or that its genetics that cause they’re emotions to hijack truth and accountablility. If that were the case they’d be acting out randomly, anytime of day or night. But they don’t, do they? It’s only with people who know them closely, family…with people it’s safe to vent at consequence free. Isn’t it interesting how a BPD person can funtion just fine in reality most of the time, behave sweet as pie in public, live by the rules of reality…but it’s only after they’ve “lost it” and abused or manipulated someone in their inner circle that they suddenly and conveniently lose touch with reality. They didn’t do it, they don’t realize what they’ve done, they have no control, it’s all caused by their distorted thinking which they can’t control, just like their emotions. Poor them. I’m sorry but these so called breaks with reality are not genuine, genetic, brain dysfunctions. They are tactics to avoid consequences for their outrageous behaviors. Think about it. True genetically based disorders are very different from personality disorders. Personality disorders are just that. Personality disorders. You are not born with them. You are conditioned into them. They serve a purpose for the person. Usually their ego, their sense of being right. Blaming others, going into denial, projecting, all aspects of BPD, serve to protect them from ever having to face what they’ve done and the consequences are pushed away from them, and onto everyone else in their life. Again, this is not causes by genetics. This behavior worked for them growing up. And if the pattern developed while they were developing (toddlerhood, early years) then it became integrated as a way of life.

Except for cases of true genetic conditions such as autism or schizophrenia, or physical brain damage, lobotomies, When it comes to parenting, you get what you put in. If you are a plugged in attentive, loving parent who instills accountability in your child when warranted, you’ll know you’ve done your best to create a responsable, healthy child who knows right from wrong and owns up to his mistakes with integrity.
If you are a checked out parent, outsource the parenting to someone else, or for whatever reason aren’t deeply involved, who knows what the outcome will be. You may be the last to know. Obviously many parents are busy, working, stressed or simply staying home isn’t an option. It doesn’t mean you don’t want the best for your children. But it doesn’t mean your good intentions are being applied at home. Who’s teaching the kids accountability? Are they in a stable, secure environment where good things are rewarded and bad things accounted for? Or are they overlooked? The caretaker could be rewarding bad behavior or lashing out irregardless of what the children are actually doing. If a caretakers punishments are doled out based on her mood instead of the kid’s actions, this is very unstabalizing. They learn nothing about personal responsability. Only confusion. They learn that what they do doesn’t matter. If they’re going to be punished at random, if what they do doesn’t matter, why try anything? Why clean up their room if they’ll get yelled at regardless? One doesn’t know what they’ll get when the children’s caretaking is outsourced to someone else. It may be fine. Or it may not be what you assume at all.

And if a parent abuses a child you know what you’ll get…A child programmed to believe they are bad. Not that what they do is bad. But that they, instrinsically are bad. They learn it doesn’t matter what they do, they are still abused. So they learn learned helplessness. That is, they stop trying in life. They fail to thrive. They feel hopeless. They learn that people are abusive and cruel and no one helps you. Abuse is denied and covered up. And all is pointless. You will have one damaged, wounded child who learnt nothing but ways to escape pain, since no one would help him. Dysfunctional ways to escape pain. Which are the only ways a child has in a dysfunctional home….Withdrawal, PTSD, drugs, eating disorders. An overall crippling failure to thrive.
People are kidding themselves when they think environment and parenting (or lack thereof) don’t affect children in the most PROFOUNDLY deep ways. You are essentially programming your children into who they will be, and what they will believe about themselves. People are social creatures, more so than any other animal on this planet. It’s heightened the most in us as a species. And nothing sculpts a developing person more than a parent. The things they do and say are not inconsequential. It all goes into programming who the child will become. Obviously, the older we get, the less we are shaped by other people. But as children we are so susceptible, so vulnerable to every little thing that is said and done to us. Or played out before us between our parents. During these fragile times, are parents are our whole world. Everything a parent says and does affects children profoundly. They show us what is right/wrong by what gets rewarded or ignored. If discipline is based not on a child’s actions but rather on the parent’s mood, what do you expect the child to learn? Responsablity, right/wrong are instilled by repetitive consistant responses from parents. A baby doesn’t come into this world hard wired with a natual sense of these things. It’s taught. It’s learned behavior. Learned social behavior.

The above post is in response to the comments claiming that BPD is caused by genetics or other physical brain based problems which one has no choice about. It’s not that hopeless, folks. It’s all down to conditioning. In fact, one could say that all people had BPD at one time–when we were babies. It’s just that most people are conditioned out of that stage by proper parenting. We get beyond the tantrum, rages, black and white reality, and self-centered extreme raw emotion. Emotions no longer rule us and we can see beyond all that to reality, plus relate to people in healthy ways. And when conditioning is the cause, conditioning is the answer. I do believe it is possible to re-program or re-condition oneself through a combination of therapy and hypnosis. I believe the hypnosis is also needed in order to get the tools learned in therapy deep into one’s subconscious. It’s not enough to learn to tamp down poor behavior and thinking/emotional responses–you have to integrate them into your very psyche. Hypnosis can help with that. The rest of us had this properly conditioned and integrated into our psyches when they were actually forming (toddlerhood, early childhood). Because this conditioning occurred during the development of our psyches, it took root and integrated to form our personality. For whatever reason, BPDs didn’t get this conditioning while their psyches were developing. It is very hard, nearly impossible, to re-program new healthy patterns into a person’s personality without somehow getting it to attach into their subconsious. It’s not enough to mentally know proper behavioral responses. You have to integrate in deeply into the psyche. Hypnosis has promise here, as I know of no other way to affect change on this level.

I don’t think anyone here meant to say that poor parenting can’t cause psychological issues for children. Obviously dysfunctional, abusive, &/or absent parenting can lead to problems. It’s doubtful anyone here questions that.

The main debate at hand though was that BPD is caused via spoiling. Perhaps in some cases of severe spoiling that might be the case. Who knows. Personally I think that’s highly doubtful but that’s just my opinion.

Again, the leaders in the field of BPD today now believe there IS some sort of a genetic component to the illness. Why? That is what current research is revealing. They still have a long way to go in understanding how BPD manifests exactly, but genetics do seem to play a role.

The comparison of BPD to things like Autism and Schizophrenia was made only to point out: 1) That environmental issues (like stress) play a role in their level of current functioning, and 2) That people used to believe that poor parenting caused the illnesses. There was no attempt to compare the actual illnesses themselves. They are quite different from each other.

However, please remember that several mental health issues do have many, many crossover behaviors. Thus, it can be extremely difficult to differentiate one mental illness from another. This is why things like BPD, BiPolar, and PTSD get misdiagnosed as the other illnesses. It happens all the time. Why? The symptoms for the various illnesses can be startlingly similar. Plus, they are sometimes comorbid illnesses thereby confusing the picture even more.

In other words, mental illness is complex business. There are no easy answers, clear cut to any of it. It takes time and research to understand them. That is what they are just starting to do with BPD. We are still years away from truly understanding the illness.

Why can BPDs act one way in one situation yet different in another – especially the higher functioning BPDs? That’s one of the most frustrating issues that families face. Again, this is an extremely complex issue that can’t be easily explained. It’s easy to say they are simply being manipulative, controlling, etc because that’s how it feels to us.

Unfortunately, it’s not nearly that simple. Most likely it has a lot more to do with things like their impulsivity, dysfunctional coping mechanisms, and their tendency for cognitive distortions rather than true manipulation. They don’t/can’t just turn it all off or on when they want. Again though, no one knows for sure.

It does appear though that my dtr’s issue are with her ALL the time, they just sometimes manifest differently in different environments. For example: When she’s at school she tends to internalize her issues and she ends up having more distorted thoughts (although those around her don’t typically recognize it). At home she tends to let her guard down (as we all do) and she ends up externalizing and/or acting out more. I don’t know if this is typical but that’s how it tends to be for my dtr.

The only thing I personally know for sure is that my dtr was not abused in any way nor did she suffer at the hands of dysfunctional parenting. I am absolutely certain of that. People can speculate otherwise all they want but those are the facts. She also began receiving very good therapy soon after her issues started presenting. The only thing that might explain my dtr’s BPD (which she clearly has) is to accept it was likely genetic, maybe even almost solely genetic. There really aren’t any other explanations for her. That my not be the case for others, but it is for us.

BPD is surrounded by a lot of unanswered questions. Fortunately the illness is finally starting to get the attention it needs and hopefully researcher will be able to come up with more answers for all of us soon.

Leanna, you really are oversimplifying this disorder. It is not just a lack of emotional development. It is not somone stuck in “babyhood”. Have you ever seen a baby stab himself to get a parent to come back? There are elements of this disorder that cannot be explained as immaturity or selfishness. You really have to look at all of the symptoms, not just cherry pick a few, before classifying somone as having BPD.

Chris,
1. A baby throws a raging tantrum in response to his parent leaving him (momentarily).
2. An adult stabs themselves (or someone else) in response to a loved one leaving them.

How is this any different? They’re both acting out violently in response to perceived abandonment. They both throw a tantrum and “lose it” when they don’t get their way with another person. Make no mistake-an adult who stabs themselves is having a tantrum. That’s what a tantrum looks like when an adult does it. Acting out in rage or uncontrollable despair to express disatisfaction in not getting your way is the definition of a tantrum. Normal people don’t rage beyond the age of two or three. Really. Anger is normal, but not rage. Anger is an internal feeling. One doesn’t lose themselves in anger or let their feelings take over nor does it give someone lisence to lash out however they wish. Anger can be constructive as it is often channeled for constructive change when things aren’t working right. Anger is a feeling, and it need never be acted on or directed at another person. Only acknowledged to oneself internally. One need not yell or break things when they are angry. Rage on the other hand is always acted out, and is completely dysfunctional. It is abusive. Whether you rage at yourself or someone else, if you are older than 2 or 3, it is abusive and abnormal.
Chris, if there is another element of this disorder you feel I’m unaware of, I’m open to learning about it. But I fail to see how you’re analogy exemplifies my ignorance.
Because babies DO react the same way as a BPD at perceived abandonment! They can’t tolerate it. They both act out uncontrollably, with rage, despair, or violence. They both throw tantrums. The only difference is when an adult does it, is is abusive and potentially life threatening.
Please re-read the original post. I went into some depth about causes, and making it sound like I chucked it all up to someone “stuck in babyhood” is a gross oversimplication. The main point of the article was WHY and HOW some people get stuck in that stage. It is not so much that they failed to progress and got stuck there due to some personal lack…I believe they were TRAINED i.e. programmed to remain there. The point of the post is to help people understand how this disorder forms so as to effectively prevent it and treat it for those who already have it. It’s not just to say “they’re babies” and wipe our hands of them, end of story. It’s an integral part of the story, one that needs to be understood and accepted before real change for healthiness can begin. These people need to be re-programmed after enduring an upbringing which enabled and programmed them to see the themselves and the world through a very narrow, dysfunctional, unrealistic lens. They will remain stuck in these patterns until they do.

I am convinced this disorder is caused by the way parents raise (or fail to raise) their children. I can tell you that my mom was never disciplined as a child. Her parents doted on her as their only girl, and believed she could do no wrong. Even when she messed up or behaved poorly, they overlooked it. In fact, she rarely had need to throw tantrums then, because they indulged her every whim. Tantrums came later, after she left home and had to interact with other people. She never had to sit with consequences for her behavior, so as a result she still still behaves like a baby in some ways. Throws tantrums, lies, then denies it all and acts like she is above reproach. Her parents raised her to believe she could do no wrong, as a result she believes it to this day of herself. It’s like she was programmed NOT to own up to her mistakes, therefore the lies come into the mix, since admitting what she did is impossible. It is so clear to me that this disorder is caused by improper parenting. A lack of discipline. That said, my grandparents are the most loving, generous people there is. But they idealized my mother, viewed her as an angel and couldn’t bring themselves to treat her as a human child that needed correction and discipline in addition to unconditional love. I think some parents unknowingly spoil their children. They can do it by only seeing the good and putting blinders up to everything else. Some parents are just very loving and indulgent. And some parents see their kids as an extention of themselves. Others still may actually “spoil” their children by being neglectful, and thus failing to instill discipline by being irresponsable, absent, or inconsistant in parenting styles. Spoiling has many routes, whether by over indulging or neglect. Both ways fail to instill their kids with personal responsability. One has to be made to face consequences for poor behavior or we stay stuck operating from a selfish, immature toddler-like center. I’ve come to think of my mother as a grown baby. She does whatever she feels, no matter how extreme, then promptly moves on and acts like it never happened, lies about it, since she is incapable of personal responsability. Not for the bad things she does. All due to my grandparents raising her to be unable to conceive wrongdoing in herself. Meds will not help. Like all people with this disorder, therapy is needed. You have to essentially reprogram yourself, re-write over and replace the dysfunctional programming your parents drilled into you. It will be hard, since it’s all you know since you’ve been a very young child. You may think this is just who you were born to be. But that’s not correct. You were trained to be this way by your parents and you can train yourself out of it, to new healthy ways of functioning. Deep therapy is the only way to make a change on this level.

There is no difference between the psychology and behavior of an infant and a “terrible two” tantrum throwing toddler, it’s just that the infant hasn’t yet developed the motor skills to vent their tantrum physcially beyond crying. I mean, they can’t even hold their heads up, let only sit up. The flailing, kicking, hitting can’t come until they’ve mastered some control of their body, which happens around toddlerhood.You see those behaviors at that age, because that’s when they first gain motor skills. Which is the terrible two stage, as you mentioned. But that doesn’t mean the infant wasn’t throwing a tantrum just because it hadn’t yet involved it’s limbs in it’s intense expression of disatisfaction. They express it by crying. With all their might. Both toddlers and infants feel the same extreme discomfort, despair, agony, and yes anger at being left alone and all they can do to express that is throw a tantrum (since they haven’t yet learned to communicate successfully). They both feel the same thing psychologically. They both express their discomfort with all their might in the form of a tantrum. With babies, expressing such feelings can only come through the vehicle of crying. That’s all they can physcially do. All the tantrum energy gets funnelled into crying. When they develop motor skills as they enter toddlerhood they add their physical capabilites into the expression of the tantrum. It’s not that infants don’t throw tantrums. They do. They feel all the same rage, agony, discomfort as a toddler does. All that energy goes into crying because thats all they are physically capable of. But it’s the same thing. It’s an INTENSE reaction against something they don’t like. And I have to disagree with your implyed suggestion that lack of concern for others, lack of accountability, and lying to evade accountability are applicable ony to narccissists. It’s applicaple to ALL infants (normal), most toddlers (common), and all cluster B personality disorders (narcissism, antisocial pd, and BPD). The groups I just mentioned all throw tantrums at the slightest discomfort. They are all very self-involved. Whether it be outward rage or turning the tantrum into themselves and hurting themselves…it is a hyper focus on the self, their feelings get amplified way beyond the norm, its a selfish obsession with their own feelings. So extreme a tantrum ensuses. And if you try to tell me that infants are born with empathy, concern for others, and personal accountability, I don’t know what to say. All infants are narcissstic. That’s how they come into this world. It’s for survival. The tantrums serve a purpose, it gets others to drop everything and attend to a being that has no other means of survival, but to be the center of attention, cared for by others. Obviously, a baby can’t do anything for itself yet. Narcissism is present in all babies. And that’s normal. Without it, we wouldn’t survive. Black white thinking, idealizing and devaluing is present in all babies as well. I’ve never heard of a baby who put others needs ahead of his own. I’ve never heard of a toddler who didn’t act out or push others away when they’re unhappy or pouting about something. All these things you’re describing really DO tie together BPD with early childhood. Despite your wish to separate them. Its not normal to maintain that selfish, demanding state beyond the first few years of life, however. It becomes a disorder if one is still operating at that level beyond a certain age.

BPD is not caused by bad parenting.
I suffer from BPD and my parents never praised me for throwing tantrums. They didnt give me everything i wanted, i had to work for it. This theory is un proven.

How can anyone say that BPD is not about being selfish? Its primary characteristic is a blatant, profoundly deep selfishness to a degree most cannot comprehend. Granted, that selfishness has variant forms, but it is still selfishness nonetheless. Every disappointment or small quarrel can set them into a rage or suicide threat. Whether it gets turned inwards or outwards, be it lashing out at others or self-harm, it is still expressing the same thing: extreme intolerance to any little thing that doesn’t go their way. Please don’t kid yourself into thinking that self-harm and suicide are unselfish acts. They are the ultimate expression of selfishness. “If things don’t go my way I’m going to kill myself!” “If things don’t go my way, I’ll end this world!” It’s like a toddler who doesn’t want to share his building blocks, so he knocks the whole construction down out of spite. Destroying everything out of tiniest little inconvenience to his ego. It is self pity and rage on steroids. It’s not done for attention, its done out of extreme selfishness. Its an extreme pathological intolerance to not getting one’s way. They direct all their energy and focus inward into themselves in such a sick obsessive way. It’s like they put a magnifying glass on themselves and not gettng their way and see nothing else. It is the height of selfishness. Not self-sacrafice or whatever you’re trying to chalk it up to. Perhaps you think this pattern of self harm is a sign of sensitivity? Just too much of a sensitive, caring, emotional nature? No. This kind of “sensitivity” is only for themselves, and usually when things are not going their way. They’re not self-harming because they’re just “too sensitive”, rather it is because they are too self-obsessed. No matter how minuscule the matter, they will find a way to make it a huge issue, because they pump themselves up with such warped self-obsession. Their ego can’t handle the little setbacks which are a part of life. They expect the world to revolve around them. If they didn’t expect that, then why the huge emotional fits when things don’t go their way? They expect the world to revolve around their every mood and desire. When it doesn’t..and it often doesn’t, not in the real world if you’re over 5 years old–they can’t tolerate it. They rage. They wallow in self pity. They blame everyone but themselves. Because they are still operating from a place where they believe they shouldn’t have to work on these things. The little inconveniences cannot be tolerated and get blown out of proportion. That’s not due to selfishness???
You’ve asked me to explain the despair and depression borderlines experience and I’ve done that in my original post. As borderlines get older they will have a hard time in life, since the nature of their selfish, childish way of relating to others does NOT bode well for relationships. Anyone muddling through life with the psychology of a toddler (volatile emotions, black/white mentality, no personal accountability for their behavior, outrageous impossible expectations and demands of others, including expecting others to acquiese to their every mood unquestioningly..or else face the tantrums..) is going to have a difficult life indeed. Their way of relating to people and the world does NOT work in the real world. Not if you’re no longer a child. At a certain point, it’s not cute anymore. No one wants to be around that. Eventually, people will try to attempt to make them accountable for their behavior..and they will revolt against this will all their might, perhaps even be devastated by the idea that they need to become responsible for themselves. They wouldn’t know how to begin! They don’t have the skills to relate to people in a healthy, non-dysfunctional way. OF COURSE, that would make anyone depressed. It’s a natural consequence. Life will be hell if you’re still operating through life with a toddlers expectations and coping mechanisms. No one wants to be around that. Relationships and work may be poor due to such dysfunctional attitudes. One’s life probably sucks on many levels as a result. Depression ensues because of this. But its a logical consequence to a dysfunctionaly led life, not a cause of BPD. Depression is not a contributor to BPD–it is a logical consequence.
Much was made of my motor skills comment, but I never implied these were integral to BPD. Rather, it was used to illustrate why some people have a hard time seeing babies as the adorable but innately SELFISH beings they are. People tend to overlook the selfish and tantrum-like qualities of babies…as well they should. Babies need to have us cater to their every need or they wouldn’t survive the first few months of life. But babies are just as selfish, and express rage, upset, despair just as much as any toddler (or BPD) it’s just that you don’t so easily recognize it. They are limited in their vehicle of expression. Obviously. Also, they have less need to emote extreme intolerance than toddlers because they are quickly soothed and attended to. Seeing as how they’re babies and all. It is the one time in life where our needs are met around the clock by others. The connection between babies-toddlers-cluster B personality disorders is right there in front of you. They all expect everyone else to soothe them, the world revolves around their needs. They all operate within the same psychological model; same attitude, same expectations, same coping mechanisms. Just because someone is 6ft, occasionally charming,and skilled verbally, doesn’t mean they aren’t operating with the same degree of selfishness identical to a baby. Don’t be fooled by apearances. Look at behavior.
Parenting determines whether one remains at this level of operating. Again, this could be due to spoiling, abuse, or neglect. Any one of those paths. But the bottom line is their parents never made them sit with consequences for their behavior. One needs to be trained into a socially healthy adult. It doesn’t happen on its own. Its all down to parenting. The failure of parents to make their child sit with consequences for their own behavior. They never learn it. Not on the even the most basic level. All the dysfunction we’ve talked about ensues.

….and Yes, Chris. Being lax or neglectful with parenting CAN cause BPD. Just as much as spoiling and abuse can cause it. In both scenarios the child is NOT being taught to sit with consequences by the parent. Lax is just as neglectful. How do you expect a child to learn to evolve beyond a toddlers level of understanding right and wrong, accountability, more mature ways of relating? It doesn’t happen by magic. It’s through consistant training and feedback from their parents where they learn this! If accountability and discipline aren’t consistantly instilled in them, they DON’T learn it. Even though “lax” parenting is certainly less cruel than abuse, and less obvious than spoiling…it is still setting up an environment where the child never learns to outgrow the innate coping mechanisms we all came into this life with. The selfish, baby-like functionality and attitude. You have to be trained out of that stage by parenting. By rewarding socially postive attriubutes and disciplining the undesirable. Consistantly making a child sit with consequences for their behavior is the only way they learn responsability. If you shield them from consequences, whether by spoiling or simply being “lax” and tuned out…They don’t learn to tie consequences to behavior. They’ll remain operating at the level of a toddler for a very long time…The older they get, the more apparent they dysfunction.

You do realize that environment plays a HUGE role in brain development, right? Surely, this is obvious and I don’t need to explain it? There is a unanimous agreement on that in the professional field–Nice try, trying to make it seem like I was against the professionals in this regard. Ermm…its obvious whether you’re a scientist or just an average person with a modicum of common sense–> environment affects brain function, ESPECIALLLY in a developing brain. Yes, that means parenting shapes brain function.
Neurological connections are formed based on the environment and stimuli to which the child is exposed. Think of it this way: the “use it or lose it” anology. If a baby is raised in an environment where they are not spoken to during the first year or two of its life, the neurological connections for speech never get made, the child grows older but lacks the ability to master human language (There are actual cases of “wild child” syndrome, where they were so neglected they weren’t exposed to language, and were never able to learn it subsequantly later in life despite being rescued and placed in normal, human relationships later on. It’s use it or lose it in the early years of brain development. The same goes for emotional regulation. Either you’re in an environment where that is encouraged or you’re not. If you’re not, then the neurological connections for emotional regulation never get made. The first few years of life are when these connections are formed. Its use it or lose it. We strengthen the connections that our brains deem important because of repeated exposure. Especially crucial during early development. That’s why creating a routine is such an effective way to instill good habits in your child. If they’re not exposed to it, the brain doesn’t form the connections and it never gets integrated into the brain’s functioning. That’s why BPD brain scans look the way they do. I don’t believe I’m covering new ground by stating the obvious. Environment shapes human brain function. You don’t need to take my word for it.

The process of pruning neurological connections is directly related to the environment to which a child is exposed. We prune connections that we don’t use, as exemplified by the fact that we’re not exposed to certain stimuli in our environment. (It’s the old “use it or lose it” idea.) If a baby isn’t spoken or read to, his brain might decide that he doesn’t need those language neurons. The opposite is also true:

as a person with bpd and that was not raised that way. i feel like ur writting is uneducated and biased by the way YOU were raised. this is something i struggle with every day and i am learning to over come do your reasher better. and dont just judge it by your parents and sister. i remember being bpd for as long as i can remember i just couldnt put a name to it until i was 18

Can relate to some of your experience. Poor parenting is part of it but not all of it as there are biological causes for this in that it is physical One has a low frustration tolerance,is hypersensitive,has poor defenses mechanisms. I think experienced some of the stockholm syndrome for survival as is easier to agree and love one abusing you as is your family so supposed to. all confusing to a child and even now as an adult.

i found your article very hard to read though as you have meta tags running through it and keywords that would be best not done that way. i see you are selling things there like book on sex so guess how get higher rank. Just saying is hard to read. Perhaps could have them hidden?

Anyway,seems you have some insight and managed to get self unstuck from the nuttiness. Am sure there is a reason for this. Perhaps you were not treated as your sis was growing up,said so yourself.

Bonding with mother as an infant is key to development,functioning in world normally as an adult and maintaining connections with people. If couldn’t trust own mother,hard to trust anyone,sadly. I have a better relationship with mom now as understand more as to she couldn’t give me more as didn’t get it herself. Also kids don’t do well in homes with a depressed parent. Child takes care of the mom thing so codependency occurs and with others as mature. Alot of unlearning has to be done,thus the need for recovery support groups,therapists,doctors. Sadly many of them are clueless as to how to treat us and many are all about the money. They are usually easy to spot though and weed out quickly as we may be nutty but not stupid. Trust your gut and basic functions as you got this far which is truly amazing if think about it. my mom gave me life though. Didn’t have to. of course takes more to be a parent as we aren’t birds who lay eggs sit on em a while let em hatch. Even birds will throw bird from nest and make it fly when ready so not needy and grows up. Can see this with eagles. Some parents for their own selfish,pathological reasons hold onto their kids and have big kids. I knew was some sick connection like that with my mom. She used to write me long letters when I was at college how she missed me,cried,etc. I came home and felt trapped and then she said if don’t like it go. Where? I felt socially inept and it effected school,job,friendships..

We are not crazy just came from crazy. I think DBT groups are good, teaching skills and then offering support to use tools and share how doing with diary cards with therapist and some with group. ofcourse some in group are too sick to know how to support as heard one say i was nuts to her friend when she had an abusive relationship herself with a crackhead. Calling kettle black. Did so didn’t have to look at self. Takes courage,honesty,being sick and tired of being sick and tired to change.

now i visit my mom at nursing home and tables are turned. I think in spite of it all I am a caring person,just have to be careful and selective who get close to,infact is best to be detached and keep emotional distance.

You sound very bitter – it mustn’t have been easy being raised by someone with BPD and I do sympathise with you. I have BPD and I was not spoilt or rewarded for tantrums, I was actaully physically abused. I don’t think you understand this disorder fully. The way you express yourself is actually very black and white(much like someone with BPD). I feel that maybe you need to seek some guidance to overcome your anger. Spreading stigma about this mental illness does not help you or anyone else. Try and be a bit self-reflective.

David A has shared an excellent peice that shows what living with a personality disordered person is like. You can hear the pathology in the raw for yourself. The recorded woman sounds no different than a Mel Gibson and abusers everywhere. Despite all attempts to communicate calmly with her, she continues to rage, verbally abuse, spew venom. She takes out her frustrations abusively onto another person, then blames them for her outrageous behavior. She also does her fair share of projection. Examples: “YOUR f***ed in the head!”
“It’s like talking to a brick wall, thats why I get so FRUSTRATED!”
“You’re an INSENSITIVE jerk!” ..while she proceeds her litany of curses and verbal abuse. Foul mouthed and vicious the whole time. She is sick in that she feels empowered by tearing down another. The receiver of all this abuse showed the patience of a saint by the way. As with all abusers, it didn’t matter what he did…it would be WRONG in her eyes. If she’s in a bad mood…its everyone’s fault but hers. She’s entitled to rage at length, and he’s entitled to just accept that and take the blame (classic abuser mentality). Twisting reality upside down in order to justify her aborrent behavior.

This is typical of the energy exchange between an abuser and a sane person. The communication is all one way. Their way. Because nothing can ever, ever be their fault. Not their behavior, not their bad mood, nothing. It has to be someone elses fault and they will find a way to make it someone else’s fault, even if it means twisting reality upside down. Or lying. Or manipulating. There are no limits. The bottom line is they will NEVER be at fault. Period.
Its the most selfish, self-centered egoism you can ever imagine.

“Don’t you DARE tell me any of this is MY fault!”

The above quote is the root cause of all this dysfunction. They actually believe it so profoundly, that it is the driving force of their personality. They HAVE TO BE RIGHT at all times. And they will be ruthless in pursuit of ensuring that. Just try giving them actual consequences (like say, leaving the relationship)…thats when murder can occur. These people DO NOT FACE CONSEQUENCES and will fight it every step of the way. It is the cause of their abusive, ugly behavior. They refuse to face consequences, and no one can make them. If you try (by leaving or divorcing or calling the police) they just get dirtier. There is no end to the manipulation or even violence they will commit to ensure they don’t have to face a consequence. You need to hear it to believe the extent of it.

Thankfully, there is one sane parent in the mix. I hope the children are under his guardianship because she may start to abuse one or more of her children now that the husband has left her. She is still a personality disordered person, and she WILL find another target to vent all her frustrations on. That won’t change.
This is what happens when you spoil you’re children. You create a monster who believes she can do no wrong, takes out her rage on others, and expects consequences should never apply to her.